Brother UK Cycling Podcast – Episode 47
Timothy John
“If your passion lies in elite British road racing and you want an inside line on the teams, riders, organisers and sponsors that make this sport such a compelling spectacle, you’re in the right place.
“I’m Timothy John and joining me for every episode is my co-host, the Managing Director of Brother UK, Phil Jones.”
Phil Jones
“Thanks, Tim. It’s great to be here. We’re going to use this platform to talk about all the key issues surrounding the sport. With special guests, deep dives into hot topics and plenty of chat, we’ll keep you informed about all things UK racing. Stay tuned!”
Timothy John
“Hello and welcome to this new edition of the Brother UK Cycling Podcast, where our guest today is the two-time and reigning British road race champion Pfeiffer Georgi.
“Pfeiffer, thank-you very much indeed for joining us today.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Thank-you for having me.”
Timothy John
“Does the 2024 season start here, or has it already started sometime ago, back in Girona?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, you could sty it’s already started. The first of November; that’s when I got back on the bike. I’ve just been training at home. This is our second camp in Calpe. It’s really nice to have all the team together and do some testing, harder efforts and just prepping for the first races.”
Timothy John
“Despite all the talk of Spanish sunshine, it’s been quite overcast for the last couple of days, but I read somewhere that you prefer training in the cold that the heat.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I’m not great in the heat. The cold doesn’t bother me. Also, when racing, the rain doesn’t bother me. This has actually been lovely.”
Timothy John
“Does the off-season exist any longer? Did you get a chance to have a break? I think you spent some time in New York?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I had a really nice break. I had three to four weeks off the bike. I went to New York for a week, which was amazing. It was a nice time to switch off, do something different, wind down and relax after a pretty busy season. It was definitely needed and definitely enjoyed.”
Timothy John
“And have you arrived here feeing refreshed? Is it important to have a mental break as well as the physical break?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, it was really nice to go home for Christmas and spend some time with family and then come back in the new year, refreshed. Now it feels like serious business again, back on camp.”
Timothy John
“January, for people in most occupations, is pretty dreary time of the year, but for a pro rider, I guess, it’s an exciting time: the new season ahead, new opportunities. Is that how you feel? Or is it, as you said, time to get your nose back to the grindstone?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“No, it’s always exciting with new kit. You always get a whole new refresh. The girls are racing in Australia, I think, pretty soon. Racing has already started, which gives me the motivation that it’s not far away. I’ll be starting in UAE, which isn’t that far away.”
Timothy John
“And for you, especially, Pfeiffer: this is your sixth season. You’re the established Classics leader. You had an amazing year last year. Some of the biggest prizes in the sport, I would suggest, are within reach this year. Does it feel that way, or do you try not to think in those terms?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I never like putting things out there or putting too much pressure on myself. Luckily, during my time on the team I’ve had the opportunity to develop slowly and not had too much pressure; even last year, when I took on a leader’s role. It was never that, ‘Right, now you’re leader, you have to win.’ That was never what I got from the girls or from the team.
"That really helped me in stepping up into this new role. I had a really good season last year; a bit better than expected. That just gives me confidence heading into this year that I’m also a leader in the Classics and can get that little bit more and aim for wins in some bigger races.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“I know some of the riders on the team. I’m familiar with their stories. Becky Storrie, for example, has come from a Brother UK-sponsored team. She was a psychology student three years ago now she’s a professional rider. You, on the other hand, are almost fulfilling your destiny. You were born into a cycling family.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, I was cycling from four years old at Herne Hill Velodrome, so it’s all I’ve ever known, really,. I’ve grown up doing it. My whole family did it. Saturdays would be gong on the club run with my dad, my mom, my brother and my grandad.
“We started racing when I was six, and from then on, my parents would drive us up and down the country for youth and junior races. It’s always been what I do and what I love doing.”
Timothy John
“Was it love at first sight? Some kids rebel against what their families like doing, but for you it was an instant attraction, I think.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I remember the first time I rode a track bike. You can’t stop pedalling. I was on the back straight of Herne Hill Velodrome, and I got tired and stopped pedalling and was flung over the handlebars and cut on my arms. I said I was never coming back and the next week I was back. I think I enjoyed it from a very young age.”
Timothy John
“What is it about Herne Hill? I interviewed Fred Wright last year, and he went there on summer camp holidays. It was cheap child care over the summer holidays and just fell in love with the sport. There must be something about the atmosphere of the place.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“There’s a lot of good cyclists one from Herne Hill. Ethan and Leo were part of VCL, which my parents are part of. I always loved racing there. I did it from a really young age and also throughout my youth and junior career. It was a really nice place to start, and I’ve always loved going back there.”
Timothy John
“Was there a moment where you thought this is more than just a hobby. This is something I could make a career from., or was it a gradual immersion into the sport?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“When I won Gent-Wevelgem, I think, that was the first time I thought that I could maybe pursue it as a career. I was then competitive on an international level, whereas before, I’d only really done national-level races.
“I know that I as quite good, but I’d never thought about the future and about a career. I just loved racing, and that’s why I carried on doing it. When I turned junior, then, after this race, I had some contact with some teams and thought, ‘Oh, yeah. This is something that I might be able to do.”
Timothy John
“What is it inside you that cycling fulfils? Are you a naturally competitive person, or is it simply that love for the bike has carried you into sport?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I think I am quite a competitive person; well, I definitely am, actually. I think I love pushing myself. In training, I always want to get the best out of myself. I like the pain, the sense of achievement. I love riding my bike, the people I’ve met through it, the places I’ve travelled. It’s a pretty special job, and we’re really lucky to be able to call this our full-time job.”
Timothy John
“I read somewhere that you were a ballet dancer, and that it wasn’t a passing fancy; you stuck at it for ten years or more.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, 13 years actually, from when I was 13 to 16, but I was never going to be a prima ballerina!”
Timothy John
“Tell me about that, because that’s another tough game, isn’t it? It’s hard on the joints and everything else. Why have you become a cyclist not a ballet dancer, in the broadest sense. Was it talent? Was it that it didn’t fulfil a competitive urge? What put you on one pathway and not the other when it sounds like your commitment to both was quite similar?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I think it was probably talent, for sure - I was defiantly not good enough at ballet - and enjoyment. I’ve always been drawn more to cycling When I was younger, I used to different sports: ballet on Monday, I’d do trampolining, I’d do tap dancing, a whole range. Cycling was always the thing I enjoyed most.”
Timothy John
“It’s extraordinary to think that you are still only 23 and about to start your sixth season as a professional cyclist, but a lot of your early development would have come while you were still at school.
“Was that a challenge? Are you a good time manager? Are you able to discipline yourself into certain areas?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, I look back now, and I honestly do not know how I did it. I did a ride the other day: I was busy all day, so I had to ride at 3pm, and it felt like the biggest challenge. I thought: ‘This used to be my daily routine.’
“I don’t think I could do it, if you asked me to do it now. Looking back, it was very challenging. I’m a bit of a perfectionist, and I wanted to do well at school, and I also wanted to do my training, so for GCSEs and A-levels, it’s quite a lot.”
Timothy John
“We sponsor two domestic women’s teams, one of which is really a development team for junior riders. I was speaking to one of the parents recently and her daughters have gone on to Birmingham University and Loughborough, and she said, ‘I don’t think they would have done that without cycling. It gave them the discipline.’”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“One of my teachers at school said that the busiest people are the best at time management. Especially when it cam to exams, I didn’t have that much time to revise if I was training, so I made sure that the time I did have was used usefully.
“I think that’s true. It does force you to be a bit more - what’s the word? - it forces you to make good use of your time and and learn what you need to learn.”
Timothy John
“To be organised!”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“To be organised. Yeah. Exactly.”
Timothy John
“Was there ever a Plan B? Were you going to be a pro cyclist or did you have other options, other avenues that you were considering?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Actually, there was never a Plan B. I enjoyed lots of thins, sports wise, and also at school I liked sports psychology, criminal psychology. That really interests me at A-level, but I never really thought about it as a career. From the age of 16 on, I really wanted to be a cyclist.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Let’s talk about development pathways. You were part of British Cycling’s Academy, but I guess there would have been other options: the Rayner Foundation, for example.
“Being immersed in the culture, coming from s cycling family, did you have a lot of options on the table? Were you aware of how pathways developed through the junior ranks?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I always did track, from when I was about 12, so it was a natural progression for me to be on the British Cycling pathway and combine track and road. Only recently have I completely focussed on the road; I still did a little bit of track.
as well.”
Timothy John
“What role did Liv-Halo play in your development? I ask because Brother UK is heavily involved in the domestic scene.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“It’s a team that my dad ran and still runs now, for juniors. They always took us to races like the Nationals and abroad. When we went to Gent-Wevelgem, we went as a Liv-Halo team, and that was really nice to have the support to go to international events and for me to get a test of Belgian and Dutch races, which are now the races to which I’m suited.
“It was nice to have that opportunity to go out and have that support from the team. It was massively valuable.”
Timothy John
“And the National Road Series: the junior series, Did that play a part in your career, or were you already spending most of your time in Europe?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I’m trying to think. I don’t know how much I did of the national series. I maybe did some of the races and combined it with the track programme at British Cycling and also races abroad.”
Timothy John
“It’s interesting to compare your development with Anna Henderson, whose career I’m quite familiar with. She came from a Brother team. I’m sure you know her story: she was a skier, she was the British junior skiing champion and discovered the bike as a means of rehabilitation.
much in the same place.
“It’s interesting. Do you feel that development pathways are perhaps more open in the women’s peloton than in the men’s?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah. If you talk to ten different people, some have cycled since they were born, and some have come into it after university, after a full-time job; maybe in their late-twenties or early-thirties. The women’s peloton has completely different pathways for more riders, actually.”
Timothy John
“Yeah, it’s an interesting place. You rode a lot of the Revolution Series, too, which, sadly, has disappeared. How valuable was that in your development?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“That was a really fun event and really nice to mix it with the elite riders. I did it when I was a junior. To get the experience on a bigger stage was a lot of fun and a really nice change from our normal type of racing.”
Timothy John
“Just while we’re on the topic of disappearing races, sadly the Women’s Tour is under threat at the moment. How big a loss would that be to British women’s racing?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“The Women’s Tour is a race that I personally love and our whole team loves. All the girls say when they come over it’s a great week of racing, and it would be really sad to lose it. Having a race on British soil is so exciting. When I’ve done the Tour of Yorkshire and the Women’s Tour in the past, all the fans and the schools have come out. It’s a really lovely event and good quality, Classics-style racing sometimes, which is something I love and something the fans love watching.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“How was the connection made with Team Sunweb?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“After Ghent-Wevelgem, I had contact with a DS on the team. I was still in my first year as a junior, so I wasn’t looking to sign for the next year, but we stayed in contact, and towards the end of my second year as a junior, they decided that I was going to sign on a two-year deal.
there’s no U23 category, so I think it is sometimes hard if you can’t sign straight to a WorldTour team, there are not so many options to go to.”
Timothy John
“When you signed it was almost unprecedented for a teenager to sign with a WorldTour team; now it’s already the norm. There are four 19-year-olds on your team, for example.
“Do you think that loss, or rather the absence of an U23 category is detrimental, or has the pace of the sport already overtaken that?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I think it is slightly different to the men’s. For them, without an U23 category the jump would be much too big. In women’s, it is also a big jump, but, like you say, not just in our team, but in other teams, lots of juniors are being signed.
“I think the important thing is that their development isn’t rushed; that they can be in a team where they take their time. You don’t have to perform in your first year out of juniors.
or six years, which is where I’m at now.”
Timothy John
“I think DSM has a justified reputation as a nurturing environment. I interviewed Oscar Onley last year who was about to go off to the Keep Challenging Centre and start his career as a pro rider. Is that pathway you followed? Was the Keep Challenging Centre even in existence when you turned pro?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, it was I spent my first two years…My first year, I was still doing A-levels, so I was living at home, and then I spent two years, mostly based there. It was in Sittard, around the roads of Amstel, so the hillier part of Holland. That was my base for the first two years, and every spring I spend between four and six weeks there. It’s a perfect place to have a base where you can drive to every Classic within an hour, an hour and a half and not be in a hotel for a whole month. It’s really valuable to have.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Another area that’s developing almost too quickly to keep up with is women’s cycling more generally: Tour de France Femmes, minimum wage, Paris-Roubaix Femme etc.
“You’ve lived through that. Does it feel like an exciting time to be in the sport, or are you simply free to be an athlete in a way that the previous generation might not have been?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
five or ten years ago, most of the peloton had full or part-time jobs.
“I think just being able to be an athlete and have this as your job means the professionalism and the level of women’s cycling has increased, and the introduction of the Tour de France, Paris-Roubaix, these big, high-profile races, brings more eyes to our racing, which I think is really exciting. When it’s shown, people clearly want to watch it. It’s definitely growing, and it is a really exciting time.”
Timothy John
“Our last guest on the podcast was Lizzie Deignan, who said, ‘We want a three-week Tour de France, but it’s not as simple as introducing it to the calendar next year. There’s a whole load of infrastructure behind that.’
“One of the things she mentioned is that there would need to have been in place a minimum wage for at least five years so a generation of riders would have had a chance to go through that system.
“But you might be part of that generation. Do you foresee a three-week Tour within your career?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, if my career is long, like I hope then, yeah, possibly. Right now, there’s no rush to have a three-week Tour this year. It’s amazing that we finally have a race. I think this year’s edition is going to be really exciting again. It’s a bit different from the first year, first two years even. I think it’s just so exciting that we are able to say that we’ve ridden the Tour de France, and we have this race that’s so available for everyone around the world to watch.”
Timothy John
“Absolutely, and the racing has been so exciting that it’s more than justified the potential, I think.
“What other infrastructure do you think needs to change, needs to improve? For example, female squads tend to be about half the size of men’s WorldTour squads at the moment. Is that the new big change? Does racing become more specialised? Lizzie mentioned, for example, that they have a fantastic climber called Gaia Realini who rarely gets to race to a summit finish.
“What are the big changes do you think that are still to come?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I think, right now, the team sizes are smaller, and I don’t think at the moment the solution would be to have teams of thirty. We’re still developing and, like you say, the professionalism still needs to develop with a generation of riders who have had the opportunity to do this full-time. Maybe that isn’t the first step or won’t happen overnight. The calendar needs to reflect that teams aren’t made up of 30 riders. We still only have 15 riders and sometimes we are drawn left, right and centre - everywhere - with the number of races.
“But, yeah, I agree that having more specialised races so riders with different strengths can shine, and you get different winners, and I think that’s also more exciting for viewers.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Let’s talk now more specifically about your career. You had a wonderful 2023. Three victories, a second British road race title, your first WorldTour win.
“When I mention it in those terms, it sounds like a breakthrough, but I think that would be the wrong phrase. It’s more of a fulfilment.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“’Yeah. I think I’d say maybe the year before was more of a breakthrough for me, personally. This year exceeded my expectations and getting my first WorldTour win was one of the highlights, or the highlight of my season, alongside nationals.
again. That was really, really special and the joint highlight of my year.”
Timothy John
“Both were absolutely exhilarating races, and I don’t know if I’m jumping to the wrong conclusion here, but seemed quite similar: Saltburn and Michaelgate; alright, they’re very different climbs, but to finish on a climb after a brutal, attritional race. Is there a similarity, or am I putting two and two together?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“No, they’re both almost perfect courses for me, I think. In Lincoln, having this cobbled climb multiple times really suits my physicality and being able to repeat a short, hard effort. Saltburn was maybe a bit more demanding, physically, with the amount of climbing, but I think I’d also developed as a rider over the two years that had passed.
“I remember heading to the race and thinking, ‘Maybe it’s too hilly for my rider type,’ but, in the end, finishing on that climb, which is short, punchy and steep, was perfect for me. I think it was a nice realisation that I could do more challenging courses, and that’s something that we’re taking into racing this year; races like Amstel which are a bit harder and something that we’re going to try and target a bit more, just to see.”
Timothy John
“Excellent. I mean, also the small breakaway. You were taking lumps out of each other, especially the race in Saltburn. It was just one attack after the next. It must be tremendously satisfying to win a race like that.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah. Nationals is always stressful. In both races, I was alone, so you have to be very smart about what you choose to follow and where you choose to gamble a bit more. I attacked on the lap before up Saltburn, up the bank, to see how I was faring compared to everyone else; to see if I could leave it to a sprint of sorts, and, yeah, I felt strong, so then I had a game plan: I knew that I wanted to keep everything together, use a bit more energy just to cover a few moves and then do my final effort up the climb.”
Timothy John
“Does taking the stripes into the WorldTour boost your confidence? It is like your superhero cape, when you put it on?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, absolutely. I remember the first time I got them, the first thing that came into my mind was, ‘Oh, I get to line up at the front.’ Especially in Classics, that’s something that’s actually pretty important sometimes, but yeah, just training - the morale it gives you. And lining up at a race: you have the reminder that you won it. I’m very proud to have them. It’s not something that everyone gets in their career. I realise that it’s something very special, and I try to enjoy every race that I have in them.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“You said that 2022 might have been closer to a breakthrough than 2023, and there were some very strong performances. What is that extra step that’s turned strong performance into victories? Is it something specific that you might find in Training Peaks or is it something as general as maturity? You’re just becoming a more mature rider.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, I think, to be honest, most of it is just getting a bit older to be honest. I was 21, 22, and I think, if you look at the trend, a lot of the most successful women in our peloton are late-twenties, early-thirties, so I think part of is just having that experience; having those race miles; also, the knowledge of the races, especially the Classics, just having done them and knowing the parcours a bit more, and all these little details are really important, actually.”
Timothy John
“And is the next goal to win consistently? And what would that take? Is that a mental shift or is it just a process of maturing physically?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, the next step is trying to be consistently up there with the best in the world, and really aim to go at the Classics fighting and try and win. I think that will come down to executing your training, nutrition, knowledge of the course, making sure that everything is perfect. If you want to beat the best in the world then everything has to be on point.”
Timothy John
“The strength-in-depth of the women’s peloton is ridiculous. When you look at the top 10 riders who are winning consistently, it’s a pretty exclusive club!”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, trying to beat Lotte Kopecky is always going to be a hard task, but I’m heading into the season with an open mind. We’ll do everything we can and look to ourselves and focus on what we can do, and after the race, you’ll see where you ended up, but as long as I do everything I can to try and win, then I don’t think you can’t be disappointed so much.”
Timothy John
“Would another season like the one you’ve just had be progress? If you have back-to-back seasons where you’re knocking out three or four pro wins, does that count as progress?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, I think consistency is never a bad thing. I had an amazing season this year, and a similar season next year would definitely be progress and definitely something to be proud of.”
Timothy John
“Do you have your programme yet? Do you know what’s in store?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“I know the start of it. It’s not completely finalised but the main focus is the Classics. Flanders and Roubaix are the two big goals, and I’ll start in UAE, which is also an exciting race, to be part of the lead out for Charlotte, which is something I love doing. We practice a lot in training. We did it today, just trying to drill with Rachele, our new lead out rider. That will be a really exciting start to the season.”
Timothy John
“It dawned on me, Pfeiffer, that you might have started a trend there. We saw Mathieu van der Poel playing lead out for Philipsen at the Tour, and then Wout van Aert did the same for Olav Kooi at the men’s Tour of Britain, and yet you were doing that for Lorena Weibes a couple of years earlier.
“There is something about having a really strong Classics rider as a lead out, isn’t there?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, it’s something that, when I joined the team, we did one training ride with practice lead outs. They just chucked me in there to see how I would get on. I seem to do well.
“A Classics rider’s nature means you do have that short, maybe one-minute power. My job is usually in the last kilometre until about 500, 600m to go.
“From a physical perspective, it fits really well, and it’s something that we really focus on in the team that can be combined with my training for the Classics really well.”
Timothy John
“And what about from a mental perspective? It’s a high-adrenaline occupation, I’d imagine!”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Yeah, maybe not as bad as for Charlotte behind me! It’s just something that you need full focus on. I know that when I’m doing the lead out, I just have the responsibility to get Charlotte into the perfect position. I think that will and drive to not let your team-mate down allows you to block out the craziness and the fear, potentially, and just really focus on the task ahead.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“We’re in Olympic year. Tell me about your perspective on Team GB. Again, I asked Lizzie, and she said, ‘If we’d had a bit more luck in Glasgow, we’d have had three riders’ - you and Anna, as well as her, ‘in the final shake out.’
the Olympics? Is that ringed in red on the calendar?”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“It would be a dream to go to the Olympics. Selection is still quite far away. At the moment, all I can do is focus on my season and perform at my best, and then selection will either be there or it won’t, but I think there will be a really strong British women’s squad there, and the number of British women in the Women’s WorldTour shows the strength-in-depth in our country right now.”
Timothy John
“Pfeiffer, thank you very much indeed for jining us today. Very best of luck for 2024.”
Pfeiffer Georgi
“Thanks very much.”
OUTRO
Phil Jones
“If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe.”
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