Brother UK Cycling Podcast – Episode 50
Timothy John
“If your passion lies in elite British road racing and you want an inside line on the teams, riders, organisers and sponsors that make this sport such a compelling spectacle, you’re in the right place.
“I’m Timothy John and joining me for every episode is my co-host, the Managing Director of Brother UK, Phil Jones.”
Phil Jones
“Thanks, Tim. It’s great to be here. We’re going to use this platform to talk about all the key issues surrounding the sport. With special guests, deep dives into hot topics and plenty of chat, we’ll keep you informed about all things UK racing. Stay tuned!”
Timothy John
“Hello and welcome to this new edition of the Brother UK Cycling Podcast where our guest today is Josie Nelson from Team DSM-Firmenich-PostNL.
“A bike racer from almost as soon as she could cycle, Josie has already competed in mountain bike World Cup races, the European cyclo-cross championships, been crowned British Circuit Race Champion, and rolled out for WorldTour races including the Tour de France Femmes and the women’s Paris-Roubaix.
Australia, she is a truly international competitor: independent, resilient and resourceful.
“Josie, thank-you very much indeed for joining us.”
Josie Nelson
"Thanks for having me."
Timothy John
“Not at all. Is this your first camp with DSM, or have you already been here?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, we already did one last month in December.”
Timothy John
“You’re still based in the UK. How encouraging is it to come out to Spain and feel the sun on your back?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, it’s really nice to escape the UK for a few weeks.”
Timothy John
“Is weather of concern to a cyclo-cross rider , or do you brush these things off?”
Josie Nelson
“It definitely does get a bit much sometimes because I’m doing long rides throughout winter, so it can get cold. It’s not always the nicest thing to be doing.”
Timothy John
“I always think British riders have to work much, much harder than their European counterparts to make a career out of cycling.
team-mates? What’s the goal for a rider at a week like this?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, it’s all of those things really. These two camps are the only time when all of the team-metes are together, because we’ll be doing different races, so it’s nice to bond in that way.
sport. And yeah, getting some good hours in the sun.”
Timothy John
“You’ve already been riding as a professional for two or three years now at least, but perhaps at a team that was less well-resourced than DSM-Firmench-PostNL. How different is this set-up?
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, there’s more support with a WorldTour team, which is inevitable really, They are quite different teams. CoOp has a lot of racing opportunities. They’re a very established team, but the support material-wise and things like that isn’t as good as a WorldTour team, so it’s nice to be able to have that now.”
Timothy John
“This whole training camp ambience is that something that you are already used to, or is this a new experience for you?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, this is a new experience for me.”
Timothy John
“And one you’re enjoying?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, definitely. It’s really nice. Both camps have been really good.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“What led you to cycling in the first instance?”
Josie Nelson
“I feel like it just happened. I’ve got three older siblings, and they started doing it before me, or maybe we all just joined at a similar time. We’ve always been a sporty family. My parents both did sport, or were good at sport, while they were at school but neither of their parents could support them to go further outside of school, so my parents wanted to make sure that they could give us those opportunities.”
Timothy John
“Your sister Emily is the living proof of that: a former world champion and European champion in the team pursuit. How much of an influence has Emily had on your career?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, I always feel like she’s been a big influence on my career. We did a camp together in Croatia in 2019, so that was nice to join her for some long rides. She pushed me quite a bit that week. I might not be here today without her. She got me on the Isorex cycling team, which pretty much kick-started my career, so I have a lot to thank her for.”
Timothy John
“Tell me about cycling and racing. Has cycling always meant competitive cycling? Has there even been a time when it was simply for enjoyment?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, when I was growing up, it was purely just for enjoyment. I did some national mountain bike roads and didn’t even know really what I was competing in. It was just another fun race for me.
“Getting older, I was like, ‘You know what? I can make a career out of this. I really enjoy it, so I may as well go for it,’ and I’m here now.”
Timothy John
“That’s something, looking back through your career, reading various interviews, that seems to be the defining feature of your career, Josie: this willingness to accept opportunity. You seem like a very independent spirit; somebody who’s very resourceful, very resilient.
“Stop me if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here, but you seem almost like the archetypal Rayner Foundation rider.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. It’s definitely with the help of my family, and both of my sisters, actually: my other sister, Lucy, has helped me a lot as well.”
Timothy John
“You moved to Belgium to ride for Trinity at the age of 18.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, I did. That was a hard but a really good experience at the same time. I felt quite young still, so moving out was hard, and it was during Covid as well, so I couldn’t really pop back home and non one could visit me easily. It was difficult, but that was a really cyclo-cross season for me. It was quite a big step up , and in the right direction as well.”
Timothy John
“And how difficult was it to manage athletic performance when you’re also dealing with the day-to-day realities of finding somewhere to live, going to the supermarket; all of the things that we take for granted in our own country you were having to do overseas as a teenager.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. It’s definitely difficult balancing it. That’s the one thing I like about these camps: you can just come here and focus on getting better as a rider. We’ve got a great chef here; a few chefs cooking for us . The mechanics make sure that our bikes are doing great. Yeah. Things like that.”
Timothy John
“Do you feel that you’ve earned this place the sun? You’ve had to go out and do it for yourself. You’ve got in your car in Lichfield and driven through the [Channel] Tunnel, presumably, and get yourself to Belgium, effectively as a kid. It seems like you’ve earned your place here, finally, with someone to look after your bike and cook your meals.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. I feel like I’ve worked my way up through the ranks, being on a Belgian club team and then a Continental team and then coming here. There have been a few different steps.”
Timothy John
“DSM, ironically, has almost led the way in the development of young riders, with accommodation for young rides in Sittard at its Keep Challenging centre. I think it was almost a pioneer of ‘devo’ teams which are now commonplace, aren’t they? It’s almost replaced the academy pathway.
“Would that have benefitted you, Josie? Or are you an independent character? Do you like to shape your own destiny?”
Josie Nelson
“I mean, there are always different steps up to the WorldTour. I wouldn’t really want to change how I got here. I think everything happened for a reason, and if it had been different, I don’t know if I would have been here.”
Timothy John
“Every experience has contributed to making you the rider that you are today.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Did this almost feel like a culmination, in a sense? Does being a professional bike rider ultimately mean riding for a WorldTour team? You’ve ridden in numerous different disciplines - mountain bike, you’ve been the British circuit race champion, you’ve ridden on the track - and yet, here you are as a member of a WorldTour team, does that feel like you are now a professional cyclist?
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. I definitely feel like a professional cyclist.”
Timothy John
“In a way perhaps that you wouldn’t have done as a mountain biker, or is that unfair?”
Josie Nelson
“Initially, growing up, I always wanted to be a professional mountain biker, but I feel like it’s almost harder to get into . It doesn’t seem as straightforward as road does, as in club teams, Conti teams, that sort of step up. It sort of just happened really,
“I feel like also as a mountain biker you have to live in the right environment. For me, I think I didn’t quite make it in that aspect. I didn’t have trails right on my doorstep I could have driven to them, I suppose, but, yeah, I just did most of my training on the road, so I was lacking some skills, in that sense.”
Timothy John
“But I think I’m right tin saying you’ve ridden rounds of the mountain bike World Cup. I mean, that’s an extraordinary achievement by itself, for someone for whom mountain biking isn’t their only discipline.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, yeah. I did that in 2019, when I was on the GB squad. That was a really good year. I pretty much focussed on mountain biking for that season.”
“There were some very tricky courses. In training, I used to throw myself at things and think about it afterwards, when I was on the floor, so it was up and down.
“There’s a thrill in mountain biking that you can’t replicate in road. It’s different. In road, you can go down a descent at 80kmh in a massive group, and that can be scary, but it’s not quite the same as doing a whole trail, up and down, hopping over things and gong over drops. It’s different but they’re both good.”
Timothy John
“Coming back to our earlier point when we were talking about all of those formative experiences - living abroad, driving across Europe, that kind of thing - and we concluded that no experience is wasted. I guess that’s true in a sporting sense as well.
“When you find yourself on the cobbles of Roubaix, does time spent on a mountain bike suddenly seem very valuable?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, definitely. Obviously, the Paris Roubaix in 2021 was the closest road race I’d ever done to a cyclo-cross/mountain bike/off-road race. I was confident on the cobbles because of my off-load past. I think a lot of girls hated it from what I heard, but it’s probably been my favourite race so far. I didn’t do great, but I finished it. I was over the time limit, but I was smiling the entire race because it was so close o being off-road that I had a bit of nostalgia.
Timothy John
“Did you make it to the velodrome?”
Josie Nelson
“I did, yeah.”
Timothy John
“And how was that?”
Josie Nelson
“It was crazy. I only fond out afterwards that I was over the time limit, so that was a little bit…that hurt a bit.
“My average heart rate for that race was 183bpm. That was extremely high for over three hours.”
Timothy John
“That’s a tough day in the saddle.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“Of all the different disciplines, Josie, which represents the sweet spot for you? As I mentioned, you’ve been British circuit race champion, which is almost an afterthought given that everything else that you’ve accomplished already. You had a series of wins in Belgium kermesse races a couple of years ago.
“If you had to draw it on a chart, like a Venn diagram, what would be your sweet spot? What would be the best type of racing for you?”
Josie Nelson
tend to get that in local laps. And yeah, punchy climbs. That’s the sort of race that I really enjoy.”
Timothy John
“That opens up a whole field, everything from the cobbled Classics to the Ardennes Classics. Your potential seems enormous.”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. In the UK, races like the CiCLE Classic, and the nationals, when they were in Lincoln, they were good races. I enjoyed those.”
Timothy John
“Well let’s deal with those separately, because both of those were extraordinary performances. Firstly, the CiCLE Classic. You were continuing a bit of a family tradition after Emily had won it a couple of years earlier, and then your performance at Lincoln: another brutally hard, cobbled race. Talk us through those.”
Josie Nelson
“I’ll start with the National Champs. That was a bit of a surprise to me. I liked the course, coming into it, and I think it suited me well, so I was confident, but I didn’t know that I would end up on the podium, so coming second was a really nice feeling."
Timothy John
“And then the CiCLE Classic: what do you remember of that day?”
Josie Nelson
“I went into it wanting to win and thinking I had a pretty good chance. I just had to hope that luck was on my side because punctures can always happen. I remember I promised my dad the day before that I would bring him back the big pork pie, but then it turns out that you only got that if you win the sprints. My sister got that for winning the race in 2019.”
Timothy John
“Has he forgiven you?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“That’s another interesting angle on your career. You’ve been the British circuit race champion. You’ve won one of the most prestigious races in the national series. And yet, when I think about British women’s domestic cycling, I don’t think about Jose Nelson. I think of you as a European rider. You’d ridden the Amstel Gold Race before you’d won the CiCLE Classic, which seems extraordinary.
“Do you follow the domestic scene? Does that feel like part of your development?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. Having done races in Europe was all valuable experience for then coming back to the UK and doing a few of those races. I’d like to have done the whole national series, but it just hasn’t fitted in well enough.
“I feel like if you want to be noticed by a team, you just have to get yourself out to Belgium and Holland, which is where most of the Continental teams are based and do those races.
to do and just get yourself comfortable in the European side of racing.”
Timothy John
“And what about the sheer enjoyment factor of a Belgian kermesse? I interviewed a British rider a few years ago who’d been in the WorldTour. It hadn’t worked out. He found himself bored and isolated in an apartment in Spain and finally took himself back to Belgium and started racing his bike again and started enjoying his bike again.
“Tell us about the atmosphere of a Belgian kermesse.”
Josie Nelson
“It’s a really good atmosphere. Everyone comes out because they’re usually in towns, past people’s houses. You usually get people just walking out of their house and watching you and cheering along. It’s really nice.”
Timothy John
“There was a phase in 2021 where you rode six kermesses back-to-back. You won two of them. You finished second in two of them. I think fifth was the lowest place you’d finished. Just reading that list of results, I was thinking, ‘Gosh, Josie really enjoys riding kermesse races.’ Would that be a fair conclusion?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah, so that was when I was on Isorex. I was in Belgium for about two-and-a-half months. That block was more towards the end of my time there. I’d become more used to it. I’d become more experienced. After failing - if you want to call it that - a lot of times, I knew how to win and what I needed to do.”
Timothy John
“You mentioned earlier that with Coop you perhaps didn’t have the resources of a WorldTour team but you did have a lot of opportunities to race and opportunities don’t come any bigger than the Tour de France Femmes. Can you tell us about that? It must have been almost a life-changing experience?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. We were a bit surprised when we found out that the team had got in. We were a bit of an underdog, but, nevertheless, we were extremely excited for that experiences.
little bit slower.
“It was brutal, actually, My form wasn’t quite where I wanted it to be so I struggled a lot but it was a creasy experience. There’s no race bigger, so have to done that already is a really great experience.”
Timothy John
“I was reading your diaries on Rouleur. You were late for warming up for your time-trial because your car was caught behind the publicity caravan. These are things that only happen at the Tour, aren’t they?”
Josie Nelson
“We were doing a recon of the TT route. We were told we weren’t allowed on any earlier than we went on. We were cutting it a bit fine, but I don’t think I could have done a TT without seeing the course. It didn’t really make sense, especially at the Tour, and there wasn’t an opportunity beforehand to have done a recon.
“We went round and probably averaged around 10mph around the whole course. It was a little bit stressful, but it could have been worse.”
Timothy John
“And what was your sensation, Josie, at the end of the race? Were you absolutely elated? Were you on your knees? How does it feel to finish a Tour de France?”
Josie Nelson
“As a team, we were all proud of each other to have got that far and even just to have finished the race. We didn’t get the results we wanted, but I feel like, with the state that I was in, just to have finished it was an achievement.”
INTERLUDE
Timothy John
“A three-week Grand Tour could happen within the space of your career. How do you feel about that? Do you think in those terms? Or are you free from any concerns about the development of the women’s sport? Are you free already to concentrate on being an athlete?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. I think, even just in the past few years, the progress that women’s sport has made is really great, and I’m excited to see the rest of the progress. For me, I’m pretty happy at the moment with how things are, but it would be really great to see a three-week Tour de France. I think it would be really interesting.”
Timothy John
“I was talking to another rider recently, Alice Sharpe, who’s on one our sponsored team. We were talking about the Ruta del Sol, which was brutal for a rider like Alice, who’s currently on the track at the European Championships.
you’re not a climber on a climbing race, you are going to suffer.
“Are you also noticing a trend towards specialisation? Is that the way the sport is going?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. There is specialisation in the sport. In stage races, you have different courses. As a GC rider, you have to be able to do all of it.”
Timothy John
“And is that ultimately how you see yourself progressing, as a GC rider?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. I think nothing is set in stone yet. I’m a bit of an all-rounder, so a GC rider does make sense, but I also like the cobbled Classics, those sort of races. “
Timothy John
“What opportunities do you hope to receive this year in your debut season with DSM?”
Josie Nelson
“I’ve got my race calendar up until May time. There are a few Classics in there; some climbing races. We’ll see how it goes really for the first half of the season and then work on it from there.”
Timothy John
“Any particular highlights? Any races that you’re especially looking forwards to?”
Josie Nelson
“Yeah. I’m especially looking forwards to Strade Blanche. I’ve not done that one before. That’s got some interesting gravel. It should suit me well. I can be a good aid to the team in that.”
Timothy John
“Wonderful. Well, thanks very much for joining us today and very best of luck in 2024.”
Josie Nelson
“Thank you.”
OUTRO
Phil Jones
“If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe.”
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