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Brother UK Cycling Podcast – Episode 30

Episode Description

Sam Watson is one of the most exciting young talents in British cycle sport. The 20-year-old will begin 2023 with the UCI WorldTour team, Groupama-FDJ. His graduation from its development squad completes the first stage of a rapidly advancing career that even a global pandemic has been unable to slow. Support from The Rayner Foundation has facilitated the most recent and important stage of his career: a year living and racing in France. Sam sat down with co-host Timothy John to record this interview a few hours before The Rayner Foundation dinner, where he was crowned Rider of the Year.  

 
The Brother UK Cycling Podcast

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Episode 30: Sam Watson Interview

Episode contents

  • 00.02 – Introduction
  • 00.38 – Hello And Welcome
  • 02.20 – Part One: A Very British Champion
  • 08.45 – Part Two: Discovering Cycling
  • 13.52 – Part Three: The French Connection
  • 19.36 – Part Four: Learning To Lead
  • 27.37 – Part Five: A Solid Foundation
  • 32.09 - Part Six: Big Ambitions
  • 34.40 – Outro 

Transcript

Introduction

Timothy John

“If your passion lies in elite British road racing and you want an inside line on the teams, riders, organisers and sponsors that make this sport such a compelling spectacle, you’re in the right place.

“I’m Timothy John and joining me for every episode is my co-host, the Managing Director of Brother UK, Phil Jones.”

Phil Jones 

“Thanks, Tim. It’s great to be here. We’re going to use this platform to talk about all the key issues surrounding the sport. With special guests, deep dives into hot topics and plenty of chat, we’ll keep you informed about all things UK racing. Stay tuned!”

Hello and welcome

Timothy John

 “Hello and welcome to this special edition of the Brother UK Cycling Podcast, where today we’re joined by one of the most exciting young talents in British road racing. 

“Twenty-year-old Sam Watson’s rise might be described as meteoric, but there is no sign of him crashing to earth. Instead, his career has retained a vertiginous trajectory, year after year, since he first pinned on a number for Chevin Cycles in 2014. 

“This year, Sam placed himself at the front and centre of the British sporting consciousness with magnificent rides at the national road race championships, where he won silver medals in the road and circuit races, and with three top-ten finishes at the Tour of Britain.

“The cognoscenti, however, might place greater emphasis on his triumph at the U23 Gent-Wevelgem or his stage five victory at the Tour d’Alsace. Even in era of exceptionally talented young riders, Sam can confidently claim a place among the world’s best espoirs. 

“Like team-mates, Jake Stewart and Lewis Askey, he has a a French connection: next season, Sam will become the next young British rider to graduate from FDJ’s Continental squad to its WorldTour team. 

“His development has been shaped by some of the most respected institutions in British cycle sport: Giles Pidcock’s PH MAS team, British Cycling's Olympic Academy and the British-

registered UCI Continental squad, Trinity Racing.

“Perhaps the most valuable piece in Sam’s jigsaw, however, is the support of the Dave Rayner Foundation. A hugely respected charity, supporting British riders abroad, it occupies a special place in the affections of Brother Cycling.

“In 2018, Phil Jones MBE, Brother UK’s Managing Director, rode the entire route of the Tour of Britain, one day ahead of the race, to raise funds for its excellent work. 

“Sam, thank-you very much for joining us.”

Sam Watson

“No, thanks for having me. It was nice to hear.”

 

Part One: A Very British Champion

Timothy John

 “A bit wordy, I think, but there was a lot to cram in!

“I wanted to start by throwing you a bit of a curve ball, because all of Brother’s sponsorship is in domestic road racing, and looking at your most recent season, there’s this incredible mix. There’s the Ilkley Grand Prix and Tro-Bro Léon. There’s the Tour d’Alsace, and, in previous, years, you’ve been a winner of the junior CiCLE Classic. 

“I just wondered how that all fitted together. On the one hand, you have this very international programme, and, on the other, you do the key domestic races, too.”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. This year, it worked out that when I was back for the nationals, it was the time for the UK crit scene, basically. It fitted perfectly to do those races while I was back in the UK. Those were the races I enjoyed when I was younger; the races that really got me hooked into the sport. It was good to do those, but, yeah, it’s a massive contrast to things like Tro-Bro Léon. 

“And, actually, last year as well, when I was on the Academy, I was doing Nat Bs, which were pretty vital. I hadn’t had much racing during my two years on the Academy, so I did these Nat Bs before a massive block of racing in France. For me, they were a key part of that year or the last two years. I needed results. I was a second year U23, and I hadn’t really done any races. I think I did three Nat Bs, and I won two of them. I went to France with a load of confidence because of these races. I managed to get a few podiums and win a stage out there as well, before breaking my collarbone.”

Timothy John

“One of the Nat Bs was the Crimson Performance road race. Crimson Performance was a team Brother sponsored. We know Matt Hallam well. It’s wonderful to hear, Sam, that someone like you is still involved in the domestic scene; that it still has value for a rider on your career path.”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, for sure. I’m proud to be from the UK, so while I’m here, I’d still like to race in the UK. They’re good races, for sure.”

Timothy John

“And no better showcase for your talent than the national road race this year, which was absolutely epic, and then, right at the end, a little-known rider called Mark Cavendish and Alexander Richardson. I mean, what a race. How was it from the inside?”

Sam Watson

“Well, yeah. I am pretty proud of that race. Normally, I don’t like coming second.”

Timothy John

“You looked gutted, I have to say, on the podium!”

Sam Watson

“Maybe, initially, but I can say that I’m proud of that result, and it worked out that I was rewarded with the U23 jersey, which was good. It kind of doesn’t really feel like I lost the race. But every time I go to a race in Europe now, they introduce me as: ‘Second to Mark Cavendish at the nationals.’ It’s quite nice to hear that, actually.

“Nationals is always…well, I’ve done it twice, and, both times, it’s been a chaotic race. It’s the one race a year when everybody’s all-in for themselves, pretty much. You just have to be

in the right moves all the time. I’d like to say, I’m someone who races with my head. I don’t know, maybe nationals showed that a little.”

Timothy John 

“It was a very British race, I felt, stating the blindingly obvious - it was the British national road race championships - but [also] in the way that it was raced: full-gas, from the gun. As you say, lots of different moves. You couldn’t take your eyes off it.”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, you had to be awake for the whole race. If you switched off once and missed a move, you had no one around you to help bring it back, so you have to be on the front foot. I was very tired, mentally, after that race, as well as physically tired.”

Timothy John

“I can well imagine. The other highlight of that weekend, of course, was the circuit race, and, again, it couldn’t have been any more British. The crit scene is such an important part of domestic racing. 

“Wonderful to see you in that showdown with Josh Tarling and Matt Bostock. Tell us about that. You were playing cat-and-mouse there, right at the end. You refused to chase Tarlling down. You put the emphasis on Matt.”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. It was very British. We set off, and there was a crash on the very first corner, and I had a spike of adrenaline then. I didn’t have a very good TT, two days before, so I was hungry for something. I was using this [the British circuit race championships] for the road race; like, good prep. 

“We found ourselves in a group of four, and then, I think Bob [Donaldson] punctured, so it was a group of three. After that, because, I guess, two of the main teams in the race [were represented in the breakaway), no one could really bring it back and we had guys behind shutting everything down. 

“And then we were in a tricky situation where we didn’t want to lap the field because we didn’t want to make someone win or lose the race because we were getting caught up with other riders, which, for me, was probably a bad decision to agree with or to say, because that meant just riding around for half the race, and it just came down to who was fastest at the end, I

think Matt Bostock was the favourite, and he just simply beat me in the sprint.”

Timothy John 

“But that style of racing would have been a much bigger part of Matt’s season. He ridden every round of The Tour Series. 

“Another thing Sam that really impressed me about your performance that day and which stood out a mile: in cycling, we talk about souplesse: this very elegant pedalling style which

you have, and within the context of a crit race, which is full gas from the start, eyeballs out, fully committed, you still retained that beautifully elegant pedalling style. 

“Tell us about that. Was that something that you’d worked on, or is that something where you’ve either got it or you haven’t?“

Sam Watson

“Yeah,I guess It is something I’ve worked on, when I was getting into cycling. I got into cycling through the Pidcock family. I remember going on rides on a Saturday morning with Sonja, Joe and Tom’s mum, and with Joe as well. 

“I was pretty new to the sport, and my parents weren’t cyclists, so she’d kind of tell me: ‘You need to pedal with your heel down and pedal smoothly.’ When I got a bit older, I was watching people like Wiggins. The way he looks on a bike, I aspire to be like. I think it’s important to look good on the bike. I never want to be ragged. 

“But in races like the crit champs, I thought I was being all over the bike, but you watch the video back, and I’m not.”

Part Two: Discovering Cycling

Timothy John 

“I was live Tweeting it, and I said, ‘This guy looks like a ballet dancer in a nightclub.’ Everybody else was eyeballs out, very ragged, as you say, but you had this incredibly smooth pedalling style. 

“Let’s talk about Giles and Sonja because they got you into cycling. How did that come about? Did you know the family anyway?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, so I went to school with Joe, I think from nursery, possibly. I was friends with him at school; very good friends. I remember he and Tom used to come to school on a BMX. I was very into sport. I started riding my bike as well, but I never thought it would be like this. I started riding to school with them and getting told off in the playground for riding our BMXs to fast. 

“It kind of evolved from there. I remember, one day, after school, Sonja said: ‘Do you want to come to a Go-Ride session?’ They used to be run by Chris Young. I went to one and loved it, and that was what I wanted to do since then: just to become a cyclist.”

Timothy John

“I know that Giles now has a team that he takes over to the Continent. You ‘graduated’ from PH Mas to the Academy. Was that a difficult decision or did that feel like a natural progression at that stage?”

Sam Watson

“For me, it felt natural to go to the Academy. The likes of [Ethan] Hayter, Fred [Wright], Jake [Stewart] - all those guys had progressed from that. You’re still young as a first year U23. I’m pretty independent, but I was advised to stay in the UK, so I went to the Academy. I wanted to explore the track, as well. 

“It just turned out that we didn’t have many races with Covid, so I missed the ‘normal’ Academy years, but it was good.”

Timothy John 

“You still are a track rider, You won a European silver medal this year with Will Tidball. I spoke to Fred recently, and he and Ethan are off to Gent next week, I think. Is that something that you would still like to have as part of your programme?”

Sam Watson

“I’m not sure, to be honest. [Matt] Brammeier asked me this year if I would be interested in track, and then I did the track Euros. Again, I never want to completely shut it off. I think my focus is on the road, but if an opportunity arises then, yeah, maybe I’ll go for it.”

Timothy John

“How difficult is it to combine the two? Very different training, before we even think about racing.”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, it is very different, and, to be honest, I didn’t do enough for track Euros this year. In the first half of the race, I was ok, and then I was on my limit and couldn’t really do much in the second half of the race, I felt a little bit bad, because I felt that I’d let down my partner Will Tidball in the madison. Yeah, I think if I did it again, I definitely have to do more prep. I think I did two session before the European track champs. It wasn’t the most ideal prep.”

Timothy John

“That sounds like minimal preparation, so chapeau for winning a silver medal. Tell me about how the Academy shaped your development. The first generation of Academy superstars - Cavendish, Thomas - they started with the Academy and came out the other end into pro contracts. 

“More recently, we’ve seen riders mix and match. Jake Stewart, for example, [who] started off on the Academy, felt that it wasn’t going to work out for him, in the team pursuit, specifically, and want full gas for the road and FDJ. You’ve had a stint with Trinity. How does the Academy fit into the jigsaw for riders of your generation?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. I guess I was pretty similar to Jake Stewart. I did the Academy. You learn a lot from the Academy. These are the first years where you move away from home and become independent. You learn to do everything around bike riding, as well. It hardens you up a bit does going to the Academy. 

“I was just unfortunate that it was the Covid year, so there wasn't much racing and it was very hard to get out of the UK. That’s why this second year U23,  half-way through the year, I said to Brammeier: ‘I need more road racing, if I want a career in cycling, basically.’ Of course, you need races to show yourself. 

“So, yeah, I made the decision to go to FDJ to just focus fully on the road and to know that I would get a full calendar throughout the year on the road.”

Timothy John 

“They’ve clearly uncovered a seam of talent in Britain with Jake and Lewis. How did your connection to FDJ come about?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, so, as I was saying earlier, I had these races in France. I think I had three stage races in a row. This was my only opportunity this year to show myself, because the other races were possibly too late in the year to get a team. I went into these races in really good shape. I was getting seconds, thirds, fourths, and then I won a stage of Kreiz Breizh, and I was leading the race with one day to go. Then I crashed and broke my collarbone. 

“After that, FDJ were interested, and I had a call with them. Before that, I was interested in FDJ. I don’t know if they were interested in me, but I guess I showed myself a little in these races.”

Part Three: The French Connection

Timothy John

“This is another comparatively new development: young, British riders targeting the development teams of WorldTour squads. I was speaking to Oscar Onley a couple of weeks ago, who initially had a connection with Ag2r. He was going to go out to Chambrey, but, again, Covid got in the way, and now he’s ended up with Team DSM, out in The Netherlands and he’s very happy with them. Is that on your radar now, as a young British rider at Academy level? Are you actively seeking opportunities with WorldTour development teams?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, I think so. Essentially, development teams offer a WorldTour set-up to an U23 team, and for me being on FDJ made the jump seem a lot smaller. You integrate with the WorldTour team. You have a load of support. It almost becomes easier to become pro if you’re riding for a development team. You don’t necessarily even have to win a race. If you impress the team and they think you’re valuable, essentially, you get a WorldTour contract. I think maybe it’s the way forwards for the road, if you only want to focus on the road.”

Timothy John

“How different is it from Academy life? Is it as different from going to university and then starting a job as an apprentice?”

Sam Watson

“I’d say it’s similar in many ways. On the Academy, you live in a team house. On FDJ, you live in a team house. It’s just the fact that you’re across the sea in another country, so, yeah, it’s very similar in most aspects, apart from the language is different! But for me, luckily, the U23 team is English-speaking.”

Timothy John

“Is there an onus on speaking French too? Do you have lessons?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. The team give you something like 40-hours of free lessons online. You have a tutor who you have Zoom calls with. I haven’t really done enough this year! I’m playing catch-up at the minute and trying to learn French.”

Timothy John

“We spoke earlier about this wide range of influences on your career, from Nat Bs to crit races to the highest standard of under-23 racing. How does that prepare you for a professional race like Tro-Bro Léon? I know that’s a specific example because of the off-road sections, but how do you draw on all of those formative experiences to suddenly find yourself in a professional race?”

Sam Watson

“The jump from U23 to those races is pretty big. They’re raced very differently, but, for me, Tro-Bro Léon was about the third or fourth race with the WorldTour team. The first one was Nokere or something like that, and I was extremely nervous before that because, of course, you want to impress them. You don’t want to do anything wrong. Maybe too nervous: I was losing sleep the night before. 

“By the time, I did Tro-Bro Léon, I was really relaxed, and I liked the atmosphere of the team, and I knew all the staff. I felt well-prepared going into that race and relaxed and happy in that environment. I think that helped for me to race better.”

Timothy John

“When I spoke to Oscar, he was saying, actually, in some ways, U23 racing is harder than professional racing because it’s far less controlled. Is that your experience, too?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. Physically, as well, U23 races are very, very hard. It’s hard to win a race at U23 level and even harder tactically as well because you don’t really know what’s going to happen. You don’t know who is going to control the race. You go to a pro race, and you know exactly what’s going to happen. You know when the race is going to light up. You just need to have the legs to be there, essentially. It’s stress-free in the bunch, as well. It feels safer. I guess in some ways it is easier, but at the same time, it’s harder because you need very good legs to be at the front of the race.”

Timothy John

“We saw you at the front of the race at The Tour of Britain on more than one occasion. Three top-10 finishes, and a shifting role, really. On stage two, you were very much the lead-out man for Jake, but a couple of stages later, that had changed, and you seemed to be the guy in the driving seat. Tell us about your Tour of Britain.”

Sam Watson

“I think the Tour of Britain was really good for me. I had great legs because it was before the world championships, and that was my main target for the year. The team we had there was really good and a great team atmosphere. Some days, I was leading out Jake. You could argue that he’s faster than me and has more experience. 

“And then [Matt] Brammeier and John [Herety] wanted to give me some leadership [experience] to prepare for the world championships. You’ve got to have leadership in some races to win other races; to make you more used to it, I guess, and to go for the win. The last stage that happened, it happened to be that Jake was leading me out. It went well. I was just beaten by three

faster guys.”

Timothy John

“So, I guess that the big question is what type of rider are you, Sam? With Jake, it’s very clear: the guy’s a sprinter. You seem to have a wider remit. Would that be fair?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. I’d kind of like it to carry on like that, as well. I don’t know what kind of rider I am. I’ll see in the next two years, I guess. I’d like to, of course, target the Classic and the cobbles, but I don’t know if the Ardennes Classics are too hilly for me. 

“I think I’m a rider who just seeks opportunities and goes for it, I guess. A bit of a free role. I can climb fairly well, to a certain extent. If it’s too long, then I’m gone, but short, steep climbs are kind of my thing, and the chaos of the Classics races, as well: that’s what I like.”

Part Four: Learning To Lead

Timothy John

“Interestingly, you were speaking a moment ago about leadership. I had an interesting conversation with Fred a couple of weeks ago, because he’s the ultimate freelancer, in a way. His performances in the breakaways at the Tour and La Vuelta were fantastic. I said: ‘Do you thrive on that? You can shape your own destiny.’ And he said: ‘Well, it’s nice, but I had the team riding for me on a couple of occasions, and having Mikel Landa on the front to drop all the sprinters was a huge privilege.’ 

“He said it comes with a lot of pressure. I just wondered how you feel about leadership, or do you prefer to take the race into your own hands and shape the race?”

Sam Watson

“In the meeting before the race, when you’re told you’re the leader, you do have a lot of pressure on your shoulders. You spend the whole race thinking: ‘I can’t mess this up. I’ve got to do everything right.’ This happened at Alsace. The last stage, I won. I hadn’t had many leadership roles with FDJ that year because the team is so stacked. There’s always a pure sprinter or someone who can climb better than you, so it’s hard to get leadership in a team that’s so good. 

“I said to them, if you ride for me, I’m pretty sure I can win this stage. They said: ‘Yeah, ok.” Of course, we had the yellow jersey so it just so happened to turn out perfectly that I had two guys around me all day. The whole day I was extremely nervous. Until the last 10km, that’s when you forget who’s riding for you and stuff. You’re in and among the race with adrenaline,

so, yeah, there is a lot of pressure when you’re the leader.”

Timothy John

“What does that do for your confidence when it pays off? The next time you’re in a meeting, you must feel more confident about putting up your hand and saying: ‘I feel good. I’m ready to take this on.’”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, winning races breeds a lot of confidence. I guess it makes you confident for the next race. It shows that you can actually do it.”

Timothy John

“This is going to sound like a ridiculous question, given that you’re a racing cyclist, but how important is winning to you? For a sprinter, it’s absolutely everything, isn’t it? It’s the be-all and end-all. Second place is nowhere. As we’ve said, your remit is a bit wider. Is it win-or-bust? Or do you have a broader perspective?”

Sam Watson

“A race that you can win, is like win-or-nothing, I guess. I would like to win races throughout my career. Winning is a major part. In training, that’s what you train for: to be good enough to win a race. For me, winning is important, but you got to many races, and you ride for other guys. When you’re team-mates with guys who you are really friends with, then, of course, you want them to win as well, when the race doesn’t suit you.”

Timothy John 

“And when you win and bring victory to the team, that must be hugely satisfying.”

Sam Watson

“For sure. There is a lot of pressure in the team with so many guys winning races. I think two or three guys had won before I won Gent-Wevelgem. I was in Gent-Wevelgem and thinking, ‘I really need to win this race now because I can’t have everyone in the team winning and not me.’ I think winning breeds winning because everyone else wants to do it.”

Timothy John 

“We spoke earlier about the broad mix of races and to frame that in the context of winning: you won the Crimson Performance road race, you won another Nat B called the Tim James Memorial, and then you’re off to the Tour d’Alsace; you’re off to some of the biggest U23 races in Europe. Does that encapsulate your career, in a sense?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, I guess. I’d like to be a versatile rider, and it was a very strange year.”

Timothy John 

“You had a very successful season again in 2019: you won the European junior pursuit championship, you won the Guido Reybrouck race, you won a stage of the junior Tour of Wales, you were third at Gent-Wevelgem, but this year’s been something else again. How do the two seasons compare?”

Sam Watson

“Well, funnily enough, it doesn’t really feel like I’ve had two seasons in between those two seasons that you mentioned.  

“When I was a junior, of course, winning races was good, and then I missed…I did one race in the whole of 2020. And then, yeah, I got some more races in 2021, and it felt like I was following on from my junior career a little bit; like playing catch up, I guess. Almost everyone was in the same boat, but I didn’t really feel like I was a third-year U23. I felt like a junior at that point, I think.”

Timothy John 

“The pandemic must have been particularly challenging for an athlete. For somebody in a nine-to-five job to lose a year of their career so early in their working life isn’t the end of the world. But an athlete has a very short career. How challenging was it to manage that pandemic situation, thinking: ‘I’m losing a year of my development here.’”

Sam Watson

“It was very tough, to be honest. At times I was thinking: ‘If it carries on like this, I won’t even have a cycling career.’ Everyone says the U23 years, if you haven’t turned pro already from a junior, and a lot of guys are now…Yeah, everyone says the U23 years of your career are almost the most important. That’s your window to become a pro, and I guess I lost one-and-a-half of those. At times, I was in Manchester at the Academy, thinking, ‘I may not actually have a career.’ But I just got my head down and worked really hard and it paid off.”

Timothy John 

“And how important was being in that environment around that time, when your whole future seemed at stake, to be part of a programme run by the national federation? I guess you can pick up the phone and call Giles at any time. How important was that support from the people around you?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, the support was crucial. I think the Academy managed it very well. It was just unfortunate that we couldn’t get out and race as much as some other teams, but [coach] Ben Greenwood put on these rides that were almost simulating road racing: big, hard training days. Those were the days when you forgot about it and just rode your bike hard. We did that many times throughout the year, and I think that helped massively.” 

Timothy John

“You mentioned a moment ago, guys turning pro from the junior ranks, which is incredible but true. Has it been a conscious decision to remain within the U23 ranks and properly develop before becoming a professional rider?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah. I’ve always been advised only turn pro when you know you’re good enough. Maybe after last year, I could have scraped a pro contract if I’d been good enough, but I would have been scraping it. If I wasn’t ready after this year, I definitely would have stayed U23 for another year. 

“I always said to Ben Greenwood who was my coach on ODA, like, back when I was U14, U16, and happened to be a coach at the Academy as well, I said to him: I want to win big U23 races before becoming pro because that’s a way to know that you’re ready for it; like Pidcock did, I guess. He stayed three years at U23, and he’s someone who got me into cycling, so I’ve followed in his footsteps.”

Timothy John

“I don’t know if ‘missing out’ is the right phrase. You’ve talked about U14, U16. You’ve been a cyclist most of your life. I guess your friends will be off to university, and be out at the weekend; that kind of thing. Do you ever feel that you're missing out, or are you living the dream? Are you chasing the best job in the world?”

Sam Watson

“I’m definitely living the dream. I’m not someone who is thinking about going out all the time. I’d rather have a life in sport than doing that. I’ve always thought that university and all that wasn’t for me. I’m more than happy with my career. I never have regret or envy other people, really.”

 

Part Five: A Solid Foundation

Timothy John 

“We’re here a couple of hours before The Rayner Foundation dinner. Tell me about the role they’ve played in your career.”

Sam Watson

“For sure, it’s really helped because in your U23 years, you don’t have a load of money. They support you very well with that. I guess you need a bit of money to live in Europe, so without the support, many people wouldn’t have the opportunity to go for it and live out in Belgium or France or whatever and try and become a pro. They’ve turned quite a few people now into pros, and I think without their support, it probably wouldn’t have been possible for a lot of people.”

Timothy John

“It’s become a ‘thing’ almost, The Rayner Foundation, hasn’t it? It’s a charity, but, my goodness, they’ve got an eye for talent. Does that have caché? Does it have a reputation within the U23 peloton?”

Sam Watson

“Well, I guess it’s something only the British U23 riders know, but I guess most people, almost everybody who lives out in another country racing for an U23 team is on The Rayner Foundation. It’s very well recognised and everyone appreciates it massively.”

Timothy John

“And how about being a British rider in this day and age? It’s incredible how quickly it’s changed. Fifteen or 20 years ago, you could count the number of British pros on the fingers of one hand. Nowadays, there are a lot of British pros, and some of them are the best riders in the world. Does that bring expectation or is it a badge of pride now?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, of course, it’s really good to be among that, almost. When I was young, I was watching goes like Cavendish, Wiggins, Froome and all those guys on TV and thinking, ‘I really want to be like them one day.’ And then the younger generation, like Fred, Tom, Jake, all that lot, Matt Walls, they’re the people who are only a couple of years older than you. I’m friends with most of them. They’re the people that make you feel that it’s possible so you have all that hope. It’s easy for an up-and-coming British rider to be inspired by the older guys.”

Timothy John 

“It’s wonderful to hear you say that. That simply wouldn’t have happened within living memory. That pioneering generation - Cavendish, Thomas, whatever - and now you guys, which, as I mentioned earlier, seems like a freer approach, in a sense. It’s not that very rigid, in with the Academy, out the other end into a pro contract like it would have been for someone like  Cavendish. It seems a little bit more fluid. There’s cyclo-cross in the mix for some of you guys. There’s a slightly freer approach. Would that be fair?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, I’d agree with that. I think when I was U16, almost everybody was going to the Academy and coming out the other end. Nowadays, there are so many ways to become a pro, I think, and, actually, it helps doing multi-discipline and all of this. You can kind of choose your own pathway. One pathway doesn’t work for everybody, which maybe why there are so many good British pros now, I guess.”

Timothy John

“You already have experience of living in France, which is great, and you’re planning your move now to Nice, is that correct?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, that’s right. This year, I lived in France [in a location] two hours from the nearest airport, so Nice seems the perfect location with an airport very close, and, riding for a French team, it made sense to stay in France with all the benefits. There are already a lot of pros in Nice. It’s very hard to know the right place to live, but I’ll see what Nice is like for the next two years and decide if I want to stay there or go somewhere else.”

Timothy John

“Is that something the team is helping you with, or are you on the French equivalent of RightMove trying to find an apartment?”

Sam Watson

“Well, both the team and my agent, Andrew, they’ve got an estate agent for me, so I don’t really have to do anything. Every now and then, I go along to browse through apartments and look how stupidly expensive it is in Nice, but, yeah, I’ve got someone on it now looking to find somewhere for me.”

Timothy John

“Brilliant. And how much of a shift will it be from Yorkshire or even from Manchester? Or have you already narrowed that gap with your time in France?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, I think I’ve already narrowed that gap a little bit. The main thing is just good training roads, I guess, in Nice. I’ve never actually been, but I’ve been told that there are good mountains and good flat roads, and that’s kind of all you need. And the weather’s great, so it seems like, in that respect, a good place to live.”

 

Part Six: Big Ambitions

Timothy John 

“One hundred per cent. And what’s your - I mean, sixty-four thousand dollar question - but what’s your long-term ambition, Sam? What would you like to have on your palmares by the end of it all?”

Sam Watson

“I think one race I’d really, really want to win throughout my career would be Roubaix. I just think it’s the most epic race in the world, to be honest. I mean, if you win that, you’re just hard core.

“And, yeah, the world champs as well. Every year that I’ve done the world champs, it’s always been the focus of the year. I can’t imagine how cool it would be to wear the rainbow bands and be named world champion for a whole year. 

“So, yeah, world champs and Roubaix and then, of course, winning stages of the Tour or something like that.”

Timothy John

“You’ve already ridden in a world championship and a home world championships at that: Harrogate 20…"

Sam Watson

"2019, I think."

Timothy John

"2019"

Sam Watson

“Yeah, that was an incredible day. It was literally the roads that I ride on, almost every day at that point, up and down the valley which I always used to do. We raced down the valley into Harrogate. I knew where every pothole was. I knew everything. It was pretty surreal, and then you came into Harrogate and the crowds were insane. It was probably a race I’ll never forget in my career, I think.”

Timothy John

“And you went home afterwards.”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, I did. It was weird. I think I was driving at this point, and, I think a few days before the race, I’d packed my car with my bike with my kit and said to my mum, ‘I’m off to the world championships,’ and drove 20 minutes to Harrogate and then stayed in Harrogate for three or four nights or whatever it was. I finished the race and went back home after the race, pretty casually. I don’t think that will happen again.”

Timothy John

“Absolutely not, although next year is Glasgow. That’s not too far away. Would you hope to go there?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, of course, I’d love to make it to the Glasgow world championships, but I’d have to make the elite team because I wouldn’t do the U23 race, and BC’s rule is that if you’re WorldTour, you can’t do the U23 race anyway, so yeah, of course, I’d love to make the elite team.”

Timothy John

“A nice problem for BC to have: so many young riders now in the WorldTour.”

Sam Watson

“I think it is a problem for them. There are almost too many guys to choose from. The standard of everyone is very good as well so a tricky decision for them.”

Timothy John

“And another difficult decision they’ll face is who to take to Paris. Would you want to be on that list too?”

Sam Watson

“Yeah, I’d love to be. That’s a dream for every athlete, I think, to make it to the Olympics. I think Paris is maybe possible. Who knows? But, yeah, I’d love to go to the Olympics and maybe Paris, I guess.” 

 

OUTRO

Timothy John

“Well, it all seems to be well within your grasp from what we’ve seen this season. Very best of luck with it all, Sam. Thanks very much indeed for joining us today.”

Sam Watson

“Thanks very much indeed for having me. It’s been great.”

Phil Jones

“If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please hit subscribe.”

 

 
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