Part Five: Belgium (continued)
Timothy John
"I want to ask about the racing in a minute, but, Phil, I just wanted to pull you in a little bit because we’re talking about this growing professionalism among domestic teams in the UK, opening pathways for young British riders, and Brother UK has had a fair bit of success here, with Harry Tanfield, when Brother UK was involved with Canyon, going up to Katusha and now to Ag2r. Anna Henderson and Leah Dixon going up from the team that last year was Brother UK-Tifosi; Anna to Sunweb, Leah to Team TibCo. Tell me about the ambitions of the company in supporting domestic cycling and helping British riders make that step."
Phil Jones
"Well, I guess the strong advice there is get yourself on a Brother UK-sponsored team and make ti all the way to the WorldTour!"
LAUGHTER
Phil Jones
"No, I don’t think that’s going to happen. It’s funny, because I’m often asked how did Brother start sponsoring teams, and I have to say, we got to it slightly by accident, rather than by some great big strategy that I’d developed. It just so happened that we’d had a very successful year, financially, and in this particular year, we’re going back four years now, maybe to the 2016 season, something like that, my phone rang.
"As is often the case with domestic teams, the managers were leaving it to the last minute and suddenly go: ‘We need a sponsor for next year. Has anyone done anything for sponsorship in the last year.’ They’d all look at each other and say, ’No. We’ve been too busy racing, boss.’ No one was taking to sponsors. There’d be this mass panic in about the
middle of October, when everyone would go: ‘We haven’t got any sponsors.’ And then phones would ring.
"Our logo had started to appear on things like the Tour of Britain and The Tour Series, because that’s where we started, fundamentally, in the sport, and the neutral service vehicles: we’ve got two neutral service vehicles that people often see on the scene. Because of that, people said: ‘Ring that bloke from Brother, because they’re doing something in cycling, and you never know.’”
LAUGHTER
Phil Jones
"At that particular point, we were doing very, very well. I actually had a little bit of budget surplus. The call came. At the time, it was the Canyon team. It was Nick from Canyon Bikes, who talked about the team he was putting together with Tim Elverson, and they needed just one final sponsor to get it all off the ground. I thought: ‘Ok, well why not then?’ And then literally the phone went again and the next thing you know we’ve got a women’s team.
"It really struck me - and the more I’ve learned about the sport; I came to it very late. I only got back on bike about ten years ago, so I came to the sport of domestic racing quite late, and what I realised is: the sport needs these teams. Organisers need teams to turn up to races or they don’t make sense, and teams need financial backing, not just benefit-in-kind sponsorship. They actually need money [to pay for] the practical side: fuel, hotel bills, getting people from A to B. Eating a dinner a night before a race if you’re away. Feeding 15 or 20 people can be a big sum of money. Your’e suddenly looking at £15 a head, and suddenly you’ve got a food bill to pay of £300, just because you’re away at a race somewhere.
"So, I’ve realised more and more now that we have a part to play in helping the sport, I guess, just keep going and be sustainable while it’s going through an awful lot of restructuring."
Timothy John
"Absolutely, and we’ll talk an awful lot about that restructuring in episodes to come.
"Just to pick up again with Dean’s story, it’s amazing how quickly that scene has shifted: that Brother has four teams that are funded, that are organised, that are going somewhere. We rewind 15 or 20 years, and Dean is on his own in Belgium, but at the heart of an established cycling culture. He’d found a British-registered, Belgium-based team, and Laz said that helps to overcome the language barrier. That would have given you a head start in getting immersed in Belgium cycling culture. Let’s talk about the racing. Kermesses are not for the faint-hearted. Tell us a little bit about your first kermesse".
Dean Downing
"My first one would have been around May time, when I’d gone over in 2000. I DNFd. Did Not Finish. Got my arse kicked. Big cobbles. Bottles everywhere. I was like: ‘What is this?’ I’d seen it on the TV, but never done it before. I’d ridden cobbles at Michaelgate, up a climb in Lincoln. Very, very different. Well, harder, but it was insane how hard [kermesse racing] was.
"I made some great friends at the time. I was rooming with a Kiwi. We rode to races. We went training together up and down the Schelde in Ghent. All sorts of good adventures. But my racing got better. My results got better. I got a top 20. I got a top 10. By August, I’d been there a good few months. I won a race. I was away in a two-man break with a guy called Patrick Van Hoogland, who was an ex-professional rider, still racing at elite level in the Ghent area. He asked me to have a beer with him afterwards. He told me I’d broken his [winning] run. He
said he was confident that he’d beat me, but I put him away in the sprint, which was great.
"I became friends with him.I was living in Ghent. He was on the outskirts of Ghent. He invited me training with him up and down the Schelde. I was like: ’This is great.’ I already had Belgian friends, but I’d beaten this guy and he wanted me to train with him, which was cool. I rode the Ghent Six Day with him, as an amateur, with Patrick. He’d done the six-day circuit as an amateur, alongside Etienne De Wilde in the 1990s. We did alright. We got seventh overall, which was pretty good, but that night, he introduced me to John Sigh, who sponsored the Ghent Six as a whole; the pro race as well.
"He had a small team which was getting bigger and wanted an Englishman on the team. I just met the bosses that night, as I’d got seventh, and chatted with them. I went home and then came back in February to join the John Sigh cycling team, and I stayed with the John Sigh team for three seasons.
"I worked with John Sigh each winter. Get this: John Sigh was a building company. I wasn’t a builder, but I was painting and decorating. It was great. I immersed myself. That winter I was working with a guy in Ghent who was the boss of the painters and decorators, and he spoke zero English, so that was pretty hard, but again I immersed myself in that.
"So three years with the John Sigh Cycling Team. I won a few kermesses, a couple of inter-clubs. I became British crit champion back in the UK. So in my last year, in 2003, I became was the British crit champion, and John Sigh absolutely loved that. His son Luke was emailing organisers and saying, ‘We’ve got the British crit champion,’ and they were like: ‘Yeah, yeah, we’ll have him on the list.’ I got the number one sometimes and they’d pay me 50 Euros. I was like, ‘This is amazing!’ The power of the British skin suit.
"But, yeah, I had a great, three-year block with John Sigh. It was amazing. I learned how hard the racing was, that you had to rest in between! But, again, I made a lot of good friends. I stayed with Patrick and Meike. They were absolutely cycling family. Meike’s brother was a former British champion on the track at schoolboy, junior, elite, and pro, so he was a very
good rider.I still have contact with those guys. It was a special time for me, that three-year period in Belgium."
Phil Jones
"Can I just ask you Dean, more importantly, what was your favourite Belgian beer? And what should we all be going to buy at Tesco this weekend?"
LAUGHTER
Dean Downing
"It has to be Rochefort."
Phil Jones
"There we go. There we go."
Dean Downing
"I loved Leffe. It was just a standard Belgian beer, but. I got to drink a lot of Trappist beers, which were very, very tasty."
Phil Jones
"Ghent’s very famous for that, isn’t it? There are a lot of Trappist beers around there."
Dean Downing
"Yeah, round Melle and that area where all the pro races are as well. But yeah, I got hooked on Belgian beer, which at some points wasn’t very good, but it was a good time."
Timothy John
"This isn’t a casual enquiry is it, Phil? This is research."
Phil Jones
"I might be going to the shop after this podcast, Tim."
LAUGHTER
Dean Downing
"When I was there, the John Sigh team was managed by Etienne De Wilde’s elder brother, Lucien. He had a daughter, Veronique, who was about my age. She worked internationally, and her English was perfect, so I hung around with Veronique quite a lot.
"We went to watch the Tour Flanders one year with her and four of her cousins, and they did place-to-place hopping, so you could see it as many times possible. Veronique’s a pretty good driver, to be fair. We saw it about seven times. Veronique’s family lived on the Ten Bosse, which at that time was the last climb on the course. We were stood on the side of the
road watching Johan Museeuw and Peter Van Petegem attacking the heck out of each other at that point, and then turned around and watched it on the telly."
LAUGHTER
"But the culture then of car hopping - run to the cars - drive in the opposite direction and watch it again, in six kilometres, or whatever it is. They do that and go down another road. It’s convoys of cars. Even on a little corner in the middle of nowhere, there are still hundreds of people watching it."
Phil Jones
"What a pity that domestic racing isn’t like that. There aren’t such crowds out on the street watching it.
"And another thought that just popped into my head as you were chatting was: wouldn’t it have been amazing if there was ride data from back in the day where you could see what was going on with the power of these hall-of-famers, back in the day. You could try and compare them [with modern riders]. Their gears were different and everything. It would just be awesome to see that."
Dean Downing
"Knowing what I know, they’d all be very similar. They wouldn’t be that much difference. The speeds may be higher nowadays because bikes are lighter and more aero. But nowadays, it’s very, very interesting. I was watching something on the TV the other day, and it went over the Bosberg. I think it’s Velon who put the data on the TV. I was thinking: ‘That’s going to hurt.’ They were attacking each other on the Muur. Full gas. 800 watts. Jasper Stuyven did 1400 watts in the sprint after 200km. That’s impressive. I have no doubt that the boys back in the day would have been doing that power-to-weight, even then, but we just don’t know, do we? We’ll never know."