“Just before we leave this topic, Larry, you sort of raised the $64,000 question: what are we running the series for? Erick says, and I tend to agree with him, to develop riders to a standard where they can enjoy professional careers.
“Clearly, that isn’t going to help all of them. As you say, Giles Pidcock’s estimate is that only 20 perhaps have the talent to forge professional careers. But shouldn’t that be the
aspiration? I guess it comes down to that dividing line, doesn’t it? Are we looking for performance or are we looking for participation? Which side of the line do you fall?”
“Again, going back to the interview I did with Giles, he mentioned that the end result for a lot of riders with talent, such as his two boys, is to race in Europe, and the pathway there is very different now to what it used to be and also very different in terms of comparing that to participation in a National Road Series, which is something different altogether.
“Riding in the National Road Series isn’t going to get you into the WorldTour. The managers and teams don’t look at the results from races here. It becomes a figurehead for the sport
domestically. It needs to be run professionally, it needs to look professional, and it needs to be ridden professionally. But it is its own entity. It is its own pinnacle.”
Timothy John
“Yeah, that’s a critical point. Phil, you were going to come in on that.”
Phil Jones
“Yeah, well I thought that when we heard Harry speak that point was hammered right home! Harry’s been on the inside of a WorldTour team, and he, very bluntly, said the bottom line is that, unless it’s a UCI race, the teams don’t really look at it. The managers don’t look at it. The results don’t really count so much. Your palmares really has to demonstrate that you’ve been competing in UCI races. Perhaps it was that stage win that Harry secured in the Tour de Yorkshire that put him on the stage and gave him a springboard to where he is now.
“The national sport really needs something for people to go through but, ultimately, the real bridge to the WorldTour is about how you can be spotted on the WorldTour stage. Unlike
football, let’s say…Believe it or not, at Brother UK, we have somebody who works in our logistics department is a regional scout for a Premier League football club.”
Timothy John
“Wow! Living a double life!”
Phil Jones
“Living a double life. On his evenings and weekends, he is going all over the North West looking at players, and at young players particularly, who might be able to come into an academy, and spot them early doors. In cycling, such a thing doesn’t exist, as far as I’m aware: WorldTour teams sending out scouts to look for talent at National Road Series races.
"If that is the case, you’ve got to force yourself onto that stage and force yourself under that spotlight. It’s good that at least the Elite Development Team programme is going to develop their skills, but it must be about a stepping stone to get onto the UCI level of racing.
"The other very interesting thing that has emerged in the 2020 season at WorldTour level is how many new, really young riders in their early twenties have emerged.”
Timothy John
“Yeah, it’s felt like a changing of the guard.”
Phil Jones
“Like a changing of the guard. Suddenly, you’ve got riders in their early twenties, who you would normally expect…The convention of the WorldTour would be you need to do many years doing this and many years doing that, years serving your craft, perhaps as a domestique or on a Pro Conti team, or something like that before you make that step.
“Whereas there are names that have appeared this year that many people have never heard of before, in their early twenties. For me, that means that even WorldTour teams might change how they get their young riders; where they look at where they get them from. For me, the importance of domestic riders having exposure at UCI riders becomes really
important.”
Larry Hickmott
“Just to pick up on what Phil was saying there about Premier League football.
“Premier League football, as with the Italian league, the German league, the Spanish league are part of a world hierarchy within that sport. That’s why you have scouts who can take people all over the world from here. Whereas the British sport, the NRS, is more a career in its own right for those riders who want to stay here.
“Those riders who are capable of riding at WorldTour level, like Harry, like Matt Holmes, like Tao Geoghan Hart etc. They had the talent, and they needed to take a different pathway. What Giles Pidcock was saying to me, and what you’ve just pointed out, Phil, is that the whole scene is changing, and riders are becoming discovered at a younger age, which is why Giles Pidcock has this junior team and is taking them to UCI races to try and get them into Continental development teams at a young age so that they can go WorldTour. The scene is
changing vey much.”
Timothy John
“Isn’t all of this drastically underselling the National Road Series? I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, but I can’t help but feel that we’ve had a whole generation of talent, from those first Academy entrants who recently featured Laz on your social media channels: looking at a very young Mark Cavendish, barely recognisable; looking at a very young Geraint Thomas.
“I mean, European teams, the heavyweights of the WorldTour, they must know by now that this country does not lack talent. We’ve also got fantastic races in the shape of the Lincoln Grand Prix, in the shape of the CiCLE Classic, in the shape of the Tour of the Reservoir. I mean, why isn’t his scene more highly regarded than it is?
“Matt Holmes, won a stage, won the Queen stage, of the Tour Down Under. Connor Swift was Nairo Quintana’s right-hand man on all the flat stages of the recent Tour de France. Hugh Carthy was a genuine contender, until the penultimate stage, for overall victory at La Vuelta Espana. This guy began his career, really, in earnest, with John Herety at Condor. It can’t be
surely, that because these races don’t have a UCI sticker on them [they are not considered a proving ground for professional careers]?”
Larry Hickmott
“The scene here is just so different. Hugh Carthy rode here. He never really made a big name for himself domestically, but at WorldTour level: a podium at a Grand Tour? That’s just awesome. It’s a different world.”
Timothy John
“But is it? Look at Matt Holmes. He was in the break at the Giro, he won the Queen stage of the Tour Down Under. This time last year he was riding the Ryedale Grand Prix, or whatever it might have been. Clearly, this scene is capable of developing talent suitable for the WorldTour.”
Larry Hickmott
“The talent is there. Take Matt Holmes. Matt Holmes didn’t really get discovered until he was fourth or fifth or whatever it was in the Tokyo Olympics test race. That’s what helped him in to where he is now. And yet before that, Matt had ridden in the Tour de Yorkshire and the Tour of Britain and performed well, but that still wasn’t enough - and those are big races - to get him a WorldTour contract.”
Timothy John
“Is the question then… Even Sophie in the podcast, and Becks Durrell, they say racing at the WorldTour level is so much more tactical. Basic skills like bunch positioning are very, very different, and then you add radios and all that kind of stuff. They argue that the National Road Series isn’t really an appropriate training ground for a career as a professional.
“The flip side is Matt Holmes, Conor Swift; riders who have learned their trade year after year, and in the case of Matt, particularly, in domestic races and have just made a very smooth
transition, an instant impact, in the WorldTour.
“Is this a case for advocacy? Phil, we talked about this in the podcast. If the National Road Series isn’t on Pro Cycling Stats because a lot of these races don’t have a UCI badge - and British Cycling puts an awful lot of money and investment into getting a very small, handpicked group of riders into the WorldTour from its Academy - shouldn’t it be investing in getting Charlie Wegelius, for example, from EF Pro Cycling and saying: ‘Look Charlie, all expenses paid, come and join us in the car at the Lincoln Grand Prix, and have a look for yourself.’
“Charlie, of course, would know the Lincoln Grand Prix, he’s a poor example, but getting a DS, getting a senior manger from a WorldTour team and giving them an enjoyable experience at one our bigger races and saying: ‘Look, these races aren’t on Pro Cycling Stats, but have a look for yourself and see the level of talent that exists.’ Wouldn’t be that a sensible step forwards?”
Phil Jones
“Logically, you would say yes, but then the rubber hits the road in the way the world works. If you think right now, in terms of supply and demand, there are a huge number of riders who are hugely capable who are knocking on the door of the WorldTour today, and there’s probably an oversupply of riders, relevant to the number of seats available on teams.
“So if you’re the man leading a team then you probably don’t need to look very far for that talent because the very best has already risen to the top and is already at your doorstep begging to come in. You probably don’t perceive that you need to spend much time travelling all over Europe or the UK, trying to find more hidden talent, if you like. There is an
oversupply of talent already.
“But having said that, do I believe there’s a job for advocacy in any sport, then my answer is ‘yes’. Naturally, somebody needs to be speaking up for how good the scene is and making the case for teams to come here and come to some of our races and experience what racing in the UK is like, perhaps as part of the development process for lower level teams from abroad.
“But I think, fundamentally, much of this is only going to be resolved if one or two other races in the UK can get UCI status. If you can get that happening then some of these teams will have more of an incentive to come over. Then, as a result, of course, some of the Elite Development Teams will end up in some of those races and exposed to those influential people within teams who might say all of a sudden: ‘Who is that lad in the breakaway? We’ve never heard of him, but he’s three miles up the road, and our team is chasing him down. We want
to know who he is.’
“For me, if I was trying to solve this from a business perspective, I would be asking how is it that we get one or two more races in the UK registered with the UCI so we can begin to turn the flywheel around the talent and the riders and the visibility of the domestic scene.”
Larry Hickmott
“In terms of UCI races, there are UCI races and then there are UCI races. There are the 1.2s, which is what the CiCLE Classic is, and that has a big number of foreign teams that want to get into it and love the race as we do. However, does the general manager of Lotto-Soudal or INEOS or any of the other WorldTour teams take notice of the CICLE Classic? Probably not. It needs to be a high-level race. It needs to be a RideLondon type race.”
Timothy John
“Shouldn’t it be the responsibility of the federation to make sure that it is on their radar? Erick’s stated goal is that the National Road Series becomes a platform to develop talent for professional careers, and British Cycling isn’t shy about developing riders for professional careers via its Olympic Academy. The first aim, of course, is to win a gold medal, but we’ve seen with the house in Italy, all that kind of stuff, that there was a very definite emphasis on developing road careers for these riders, too.
“Given that the federation doesn’t invest to anything like the same degree in the National Road Series, isn’t the very least it can do is to advocate for the National Road Series, to advocate and give a chance to all those riders who aren’t on this gilded path to the WorldTour, but who have talent and have dedication and who, in the case of Matt Holmes, make a very smooth transition to the WorldTour? The same can be said on the women’s side for Anna Henderson and Leah Dixon to choose only two from the Brother Cycling family.
“Isn’t it the federation’s responsibility to ensure that its own National Road Series is on the radar of the biggest teams in the sport if its goal is to help riders within it to have professional careers?”
Larry Hickmott
“From my point of view, if the UCI teams had a minimum wage then the riders who aren’t good enough to ride at WorldTour level but are riding the National Road Series can have a career here, because they are being paid and are professional riders.
“I just think that the sport is structured on a world level. The National Road Series is its own entity. People look upon it as a stepping stone to the WorldTour. That isn’t the way the world works. The way the world works is that you need to take riders into Europe because we don’t have the races here for them to show themselves in order to move onto bigger and better things.
“I think the National Road Series, just as it was when it was the Professional Series back in the seventies and eighties, it is its own entity. It is its own career. There are riders who don’t want to race in Europe. They’re quite happy sitting at home and racing here as a career.”